SNM116: How to Build a Podcast Empire with Jordan Harbinger from Art of Charm

Ten years ago Jordan Harbinger was aWall Stree t lawyer.  Now he runs one of the most successful podcasts in the world.  Today he shares some extremely powerful secrets, including:

  • How a lawyer can make more money on the golf course than billing hours
  • How networking saved both our teeth
  • Why he would never leave his podcast for television or radio
  • The secret to getting hired by a big company with a cold email
  • And so much more!

Focus on Your Core Competency

Jordan runs a very popular podcast that people are begging to be a guest on.

But so many of those people don't pay attention to what Jordan and the Art of Charm are focused on.

His niche isn't interviews or podcasting.

He is focused on personal development and human improvement.

By focusing on a very clearly defined area, he has built a podcast into an empire.

His show never strays into politics or entertainment, because those are not inside his niche.

By focusing on one core area, people know exactly what they are going to get when they tune in each week.

You Reap What You Sow

When Jordan first started his show I jumped at every chance I could get to be a guest.

I was part of a group show and I had my own episodes a LONG time ago.

I have moved in a totally different direction and Jordan's show has massively matured since then.

Helping him out years ago and maintaining that relationship is exactly why he set aside an hour to spend with us nearly a decade later.

As he talks about in this episode, the people who treated him poorly when he started out are the ones constantly begging to get on his show now.

But it's too little, too late.

The Power of Serendipity

Maintaining a relationship for a long time is the reason Jordan appeared on my show, but it's not why he appeared right NOW.

I have been doing my show for nearly a year.

This is episode 116 and I could have asked him months ago.

Having that social connection is what allowed serendipity to enter our lives.

Jordan and I got married a few days apart last December.

We both changed our Facebook status a few days apart and our feeds pinged each other.

I rarely use Facebook and I'm not actually the one who changed my status.

My wife changed hers and it automatically changed mine, without Facebook even asking if it was true!

Without these two elements, this awesome interview wouldn't have taken place.

[easy-tweet tweet=”Luck is where preparation meets opportunity (or in this case serendipity.)” user=”ServeNoJonathan” hashtags=”servenomaster”]

Don't Wait for the Drought to Start

Many highly-skilled people are struggling to find work right now.

Really big companies are shutting their doors and loads of companies are replacing great workers with cheaper, younger employees.

These people have spent so long mastering their hard, technical skills.  But those aren't enough anymore.

Waiting until you need help from your network is NOT the time to start growing it.

Can you plant seeds in November?

Of course not, the snow is coming and it's far too late.

Listen to today's episode and start taking action now.

Jordan drops so much wisdom that you will probably need to listen twice.

Show Notes:


Key Points:

  1. Podcasting is the market of the future
  2. Start networking now, don't wait til you need those connections
  3. Networking and podcasting are an easy way to build an empire

Resources Mentioned:

Breaking Orbit

Serve No Master on Amazon

Most other links can be found in my TOOLBOX


Send in your questions to podcast [at] servenomaster [dot] com


Read Full Transcript

On today's episode I interviewed Jordan Harding the man behind the art of charm podcasts strapping your seatbelt and grab a notebook going to want to take notes on this episode Jordan breaks down had a logic killer podcast and how networking helped him leave behind a big law firm in New York to build his own empire today's episode is brought to you by SCM Rush started in 2008 with one mission to make online competition fair and transparent with equal opportunities for all to find out how Essam Russ can help you compete with the big boys go to Servo\SCM rush today are you tired of dealing with your boss you feel underpaid and underappreciated want to make it online. Start living your retirement dreams now come to the right place no MasterCard presented live from a tropical island in the South by best-selling author Jonathan Greene now is your home excited to have you as a guest on my show since your show twice many many moons ago and I can't wait to hear your side of things we met through networking so I thought to be great opportunity to bring on someone who is just a true master networker and built his entire business through social connections and would love to hear a bit of your story how you transitioned from your previous career working in the corporate sector and taken over being your own boss sure yeah I have a habited I started as a Wall Street attorney and I essentially got hired there through a friend of a friend I haven't got good grades and I had greats notes in law school and I basically had been going by the strategy of fly by the seat of my pants because I was an irresponsible kid for the most part and I showed up to basically what it was back in the day this is like 2005 2006 all the companies that were hiring lawyers would recruit you they'd set up shop in a hotel there be like four days of interviews that are 15 to 20 minute long and then you get callbacks from the firms that were interested in you and you had to do this dumb thing because of course this is the University of Michigan go blue but this place was hell-bent on not just letting everybody go for the ones they wanted to they had to make it quote on quote fair C had to prioritize which firms you wanted and then they would assign you these limited spaces so I showed up without having booked anything because I was overseas working at the time I literally just didn't book anything I just decided I'm not I'm not doing this I'm not going to play by this game and naturally I had just no interviews no shot at anything and I I started rolling around looking for openings and looking for who is who is a no-show when I got a couple interviews that way I ran into an old friend of mine he said oh you know my own roommates or you should go say hi I said great what real men he said always you helping the partner recruit from our school in room whatever 207 so I show up there it's lunchtime and he says give me your resume Jordan author on the pile and I said yeah Kool-Aid I don't really have an interview lined up because Holland and he asked a partner if I could interview with him while he was eating lunch so I did my first job interview over a subway sandwich the more I watch somebody else eat lunch I should say and I ended up getting this job and I thought wow that's is really weird concept of social capital action and then when I worked at the law firm itself the guy had hired me Dave he was never in the office is guy from Brooklyn with a tan and I thought this is strange like what is he know that I don't know so I asked him one day and he said look I bring in deal flow I don't have to bill ours is much because I'm bringing in deals and that's worth more than simply billing hours and we did the math and I figured out that his time was actually more valuable outside the firm that was inside the firm because if he brings in $1 million law deal that the math worked out do something ridiculous like $1000 an hour or something for his time I made was just ludicrous what this guy was worth when you broke it down an hourly basis and he wasn't this wasn't $1000 in our working behind a desk on a Sunday night with all the other partners this was $1000 an hour on a golf course or a charity dinner so I had originally been accustomed to outworking everyone I'd originally been accustomed to being one of the smarter guys in high school that's got me through high school outworking everybody got me through college and law school and now here I am where everybody who's working on Wall Street has been filtered in for those qualities in the playing field is again even and David given me a heads up as to look this is the secret through this is the secret path right to get into the top this is the game that everybody else at the top level was playing that you learn about basically once it's too late and this is the same for every industry you learn about the network that you needed to have after you got past up for a promotion or something like that and then you have a temper tantrum about how it's all about who you know and it's not fair instead of doing what I started doing which is realizing that I'm oblivious to the secret game being played around me and I want to learn the rules and I want to make it happen and so I started dedicating just my entire life to figuring out how do I create social capital make friends leverage relationships and keep those relationships fresh enough where if I need anything from these particular interactions are these relationships I can get it because otherwise you end up being that bitter 40 something-year-old guy or girl who goes yes all about who you know when you put stank on the end of it you know I want you to go all right I've got an advantage that most people aren't even paying attention to at all I love that card your story you said one term in there that that's interesting social capital use a couple times and maybe explain what that means sure so what I mean by social capital is essentially I've got relationship referral currency I've got personal relationships and friendships familial relationships favors and trades those all kind of lump into social capital because referral currency where I say Jonathan I hope to up with this business guy was open you could hook me up with this other business guy friends do that you are referring a connection that's all fine and good but there's something to be said for social capital which is got bigger circle on the Venn diagram were his referral currency has to do with mutual introductions and is a part of social capital social capital is every relationship that you have personal or business every everyone that owes you one everyone that you owe one every speaking engagements that you can get everybody who knows you is included in that the platform that you use such as my show the art of charm more by I use social capital to both get guests and I use that platform to gain social capital or referral currency so it's basically just any type of networking or relationship or interworking's of those things in between those things and of course just easier to say social capital than to say referral currency and… For other concepts that tend to be lumped together especially when you're new to this it just sound and I don't like the word networking because what that sounds like is a dirty word where you show up at some lame oh networking event sponsored by meet up or whatever and you hand out as many business cards you can and then go get a burger which is a terrible way to do to try to build relationships I don't like using that word because it's been tainted it's been shot upon too many times and so we don't use it really because it's it's got a negative stigma attached to it I usually say juice instead of social currency is like oh I got some juice with those people I got some juice and that industry so now you're working as a lawyer and you found out that you can make more money as a lawyer not lawyering but networking or social currency exchanges how did you begin to move forward in your career from that point when you learn that critical lesson what essentially happened here is I was working for the firm I started creating relationships dedicating my time to that and this is 2000 and 60,007 shortly thereafter we hit just a crazy economic crisis is everyone is sure remembers and what happened from there is that instead of letting us go is first year associates which would've been just a major black mark on the firm's reputation they just decided to pay us for the next I think 11 months and and basically were giving us less and less work and eventually said look you don't even need to show up you guys need to go start your career at another firm or can help pay for job search services and all this other stuff and I just went look at Marty running the art of charm I'd been doing it for a few years it had been a sidekick that was slowly scaling and here is a perfect opportunity a salary and full benefits from a Wall Street firm for the next 10 months talk about great runway and so I basically took my salary and invested in the company and never went back that sounds like a dream come true it was like winning the lottery except I want a smaller amount of money that kept us alive all the way through the very first beginning stage of the relationship it's funny because of people go man you waste all that time in law school and I agree like I spent a lot of money and loss go I spent a lot of time in law school but at the end of the day it was the runway that I needed to start the company because if you count law school in weight which is where we started art of charm and then you go to that year that we left that I left law school and worked you're looking at a 3 to 4 year runway that was just paid for first in loan money that I paid off later in all and then in the salary that I was paid by the firm I wouldn't of been able to start the company otherwise so getting laid off from my first job out of college was the best thing that ever happened to me start the art of charm and then you launched your podcast around the same time I know I've been listening for almost 10 years to show and watching really grow you get some really amazing gas how did you start out how did you grow to having one of the biggest most successful podcasts I know for a while you guys even had a radio show yet we were on satellite radio for a while this month is a 10 year anniversary of the art of charm so it took forever when we first started nobody knew what a podcast was so I got all kinds of nasty reply is a and also just got straight up ignored by a lot of people some mutual friends of yours and mine from back in the day like some of the weirdo crew that you and I used to run with would say things like lose my number I'm out right now or something like that and it was kind of funny because of course years later and not too many years later those same people were like what do I need to do to get on your show and I just remember thinking maybe show little bit of love and respect and it just took forever to get things off the ground but yeah now I had Tony Hawk the Pro skater Anna had Gen. McChrystal come on the show Gary Vaynerchuk Peter Diamandis there's a lot of people that don't even go on small TV shows coming on the show now it's it's been it's been great but yet it's been a 10 year slog do people often approach you and ask to be guest or is it more each guest to someone you seek out each guest is somebody that we seek out we get pitched a lot but now you can imagine there's this whole like influencer economy there is all this there some sort of pride attached to being a quote unquote thought leader and essentially a lot of the people that come and pitch our self published but not that there's anything wrong with that it just means that their audience is not going to be large enough to make this a really high-value piece and there's a lot of people who are offended right now think just because I don't have a great audience doesn't mean I have great content you might have great content but why should I gamble on it right and this is exactly what I went through when I first started the show so I try to be as kind about it is possible but I also realize that if I continually give interviews or give a platform or give our platform to everybody that wants it it's doing a disservice to the audience which is much larger than the one person who wants to sell their latest thing so it's a fine balance and you really do have to be very very careful who you get an and frankly people who are super accessible and are on a PR terror going to be on every show I'm sure that you've noticed there is a trend in these entrepreneur shows that it's like everybody has a show where they interview entrepreneurs and every single one of them asked the same set of pre-scripted questions and they turn their show which is their platform an integral part of social capital they turn it into a commodity where it's just like the other show that has the other person doing the exact same thing you hit on something there that really connects with me and I want to dial into that a little bit there's nothing I hate more than it interview that's a repeat of another persons interview we could almost cut-and-paste out anyone's questions how do you design an interview that's unique how you come up with questions other people have asked and how do you make sure that it's got that Jordan Arctic char flavor to it the way that I prep for shows is just super key what I used to do and what a lot of show hosts do especially when their nail is they go cool on the Google the person they find their bio and that becomes the intro and then they read the Wikipedia article if that and that becomes the basis for the interview I read the Wikipedia I read the negative reviews on Amazon I read their yelp reviews for their business I read articles that they've written on LinkedIn I read their entire book I might read another book that they wrote earlier that they're not currently promoting I will reach out to my network and ask for their friends and it gets stories about them that aren't public yet that are maybe really funny and I will throw that into a document a Google doc all those notes and then I will go to those notes with my producer a few days before the show and I will write questions that I have about my own notes so it takes like 10 hours and that goes back to the idea that I'm used to out working people because I worked on a lot of the skills of presentation and hosting and all those things but I will tell you that one of the best ways to get ahead is still just good old-fashioned hustle and outworking people and it's great to be able to do that because I know that most people who are doing online business are looking for shortcuts or they're looking for ways to scale and this is their nightmare taking a ton of time to prep a piece of content prep that they can't outsource it's just one of my competitive advantage is being able to do all that and then I throw of course the knowledge and questions that I have into that document that I would have from the last 10 years of interviews that I've done in a similar space that's why we don't have a variety show it's like today fitness tomorrow financial management now something else we focus on psychology and human performance and relationships that that such a narrow area that I can always call BS on somebody who's just blowing smoke because I've read the studies I've read the other books in their field I've talked to their their colleagues the author is like in fact check them if and if necessary in real-time on the show and then of course afterwards if they say something that doesn't sound right I can email the world's foremost authority on that subject and get a response a lot of the time so people bring their a game which brings up the quality of the show outside of just my prep people know they're not gonna get away with anything and so they come by without just being on autopilot and giving their spiel yeah I think that's really good a lot of what I teach my audience will know this is that my competitive advantage as far as the last how to write so many books how to create such solid products in areas I don't know and I always say it's 90% research I never get writers block and it's because I always have the deepest outline possible so I think the same technique for any type of content whoever research is the most creates the best content yeah it can be that level I mean of course the research has to be fit with the ability to present it in a compelling way but yes you can you can do a lot by just putting in the hours knowing what you're doing and outwork in a competition that's for absolutely sure now that you've been going to podcast for 10 years or watching you go from just interviewing friends of friends to now generals and really major celebrities how has your networking and interactions change that you gone from the guy asking to the guy sang out how to type one thing to remember is that everybody's always trying to reach up so I make sure to network across" "down as well as up because it's very tempting to go oh I only want to talk to Richard Branson and it's like well yeah you and everybody else but where did you start so it's very important for you when you get to the top so to speak or the middle were everywhere one thing most of us are to send the elevator back down to the next guy and so that means being very giving and very generous so my generosity has actually gone up now that I know these principles because I like to give very freely alike to you very generously I like to scale my networking efforts by introducing people inside my network to each other so what that essentially means is that the bulk of my networking in relationships have to do with me introducing you to my CPA introducing my lawyer to another potential client I don't have to do most of the work myself so that allowed me to scale I'm merely introducing other elements of my network to each other and that's great because that's infinitely scalable law almost infinitely scalable you can send 100 emails a day introducing people to one another up until you hire somebody for your company that does that full-time if you really wanted to that's very powerful and doing so generously is extremely important because when you're at the bottom you think I don't have enough to give you to want to give a connection to somebody next to you because you're worried though get the jump on you at the top you're not doing that at all at the top you're focused on giving much more than you take much much more another thing that I've learned that I I rely on heavily is I don't keep score so if I help somebody with something I don't think this is quid pro quo I'm gonna ask them for something later or they owe me something for this and I encourage people not to do that either because it creates weird situations where your writing covert contracts this means if I help you with something and I'm keeping score than the next time I help you and if I haven't asked you for anything or if I've asked you for something that you can't provide or you won't provide for some reason that's valid I might start to get really irritated I might even say like okay well I'm not helping Jonathan anymore because you know I introduced her to my CPA and my lawyer and I asked him to introduce me to so-and-so and he couldn't do it or it didn't work out that's a bad and unhealthy mindset because it makes your networking and relationships transactional and that's the opposite of what you want you don't want to keep score you want to give very freely you want to definitely give in a way that's scalable for you and that will help you just skyrocket your results and I'll illustrate this with a little story when I moved to Los Angeles had a toothache and I didn't have a car I just moved here and probably still stuff in boxes and I had a toothache and I went to a bunch of Denison called a bunch of Dennis and they also look we don't take new patients or your insurance sucks or in a go to the ER and I thought that this is gonna be a bad situation so in desperation I post on Facebook and I said look how do I how do I get a dentist short notice if anybody knows anyone please help on dying over here and this guy that I don't even know commented on my public posts and set my answer Dennis the Hollywood MAPI to call her and see if she can fit yet so we did that I went got my tooth fixed of course I thanked him and he ends up sending me his graphic design portfolio and I didn't need a graphic designer and I thought yeah sure I'll keep my air to ground for you and whatever but four days later somebody emailed me in her web designer had crapped out and they needed more graphics heavy more sort of digital design so I sent him the portfolio and said look if if this helps I know this guy he just sent it to me no judgments I have worked with them and he said great I'm desperate introduced me that kind of getting a full-time job for nano 7080 K a year in the city of LA doing what he wanted to do he was literally a barista before that trying to find a job in his niche and he got one because he helped me find a dentist on Facebook so this encompasses the whole give freely and generously ABG as we call it always be giving instead of ABC always be closing the reason this is so important is because if he were looking for a job he could've sent that portfolio to literally every person that he knew as we didn't know each other and he wouldn't of gotten that same job because he didn't have that connection the reason he got that connection is because he helped me find a dentist on Facebook something that in theory and at that point in time had no possibility of giving him any sort of reward whatsoever all he did was refer his aunt who didn't need the business ended up having to open up early just to help me out with that because she was packed up with patients they did me a favor and he ended up getting a job for me the lesson here is that the opportunities are over the horizon you can't see them until later on so if he had been thinking what's in it for me instead of I just want to help this guy he wouldn't have ended up with his career he would've literally had to start his entire career later on and he would have been stuck doing the barista thing and keeping his graphic design as a hobby instead of his occupation and that for me was a superpowerful lesson that's amazing that a very similar story when I was in London and I got my tooth broken at kickboxing and a friend of a friend was a dentist he fixed it and so I only looked like a monster for half a day I didn't have networking I would've been able to get my tooth fixed maze we both have dental stories even your show for 10 years now and that means you got hundreds and hundreds of episodes are there any people that when you first interview that there were so small and now they've grown into something really really big actually Gary Vaynerchuk we first see it we first interviewed him I want to say in 2007 or 2008 he's been gone just absolutely bananas work and outwork everybody working on everything so yeah we were we met him when he was in a shared office space and his office was so small that it is personal office that if you wanted to get in you had to like move out of the way of the door to close it you couldn't close the door while you are in it unless you stepped over to where his desk was that's out now he's got his own Manhattan firm with a giant innovator media book behind the receptionist desk it's just absolutely crazy that's that's one that's become really really big of course we we interviewed Tim Ferris and something like 2008 2009 he's done nothing but grow since then as well so yeah there's been a lot of people who we've had on the show that whose profile has since just exploded and it was great to get in early out say that looking to the future where you're going to go over the next 10 years what is your vision for art of charm with your vision for the podcast and what's your view of the growing landscape of entrepreneurship well for me I want to focus on growing the show I love to see the show grow I love doing the show I love talking about the show I love teaching the audience on the show so I am focused on that I really do enjoy it I think it's super fun and I love growing the business that results from the show shooting for bigger and better guests doing bigger and better prep making a production that much better inches at a time it's all it's all just a labor of love and it's just been a blessing to build a do something like this is my occupation it's what I wanted to do when I was eight had I paid attention to what I wanted to do when I was eight years old which is be a talkshow host on the radio I would've saved myself a lot of educational debt that's for sure but that's more focused on and I'm I'm very excited about that moving forward with question 2 1/2 million downloads every month and I like to double that you had that radio show for a while on satellite radio is that's something you want to go back into or doing television was really podcasting the medium that's your wave of the future I really like podcasting because it's quickly eclipsing radio in terms of popularity I know people go no there still 60 million radial assert that numbers going down and younger people who are in their millennial generation and generation Y they are not listening to the radio digital media is absolutely the future anybody doesn't see that probably works in radio I went to a radio conference a few years ago I gave a panel on podcasting and they let me pick the panel was just like these random folks that had podcast that they had found and I moderated it and then afterwards this radio exec came up and was like podcasts of those still exist in all his friends I chuckled and laughed and everything I thought like whatever and I went back the next year to teach radio executives how to shift into the digital medium and I remember seeing that guy does like fancy meeting you here looks like podcasts are back in force, and he was just like what it me he had no idea he was 67 years old and just very cocky like old people still listen to podcasts and then it he must've gone back at some point in the next few months somebody put up printed out memo on his desk or cinnamon email that went here's our market share being eaten to death by free stuff that people are producing in their friend's basement what we do about it and the answer was try and play a harried game of catch up by hiring guys like me to come and talk to these digital media managers who have no idea how to save a radio brand it was kind of is bittersweet then because I thought wow there's a lot of people were to lose their jobs because you thought this was a joke instead of going digital 10 years ago and now they're paying the price and and so when I look at this I don't even think about radio being anything even remotely remotely current I mean satellite radio is great because they have great talents turn in all those folks are on there but the second those big dogs retire or even just shift into digital media because they can make more doing it there depending on how much money serious is paying them that whole services going to fold or it's going to start bringing in podcast talent which they're already doing in order to make up for the fact that they really can't compete and forget about FM and AM radio the only reason is even still exists is because there's a core cadre of 40 and 50 something people who don't have digital in their car and aren't tech savvy but is car manufacturers catch up to the fact that 4G constrained things in the car and they put in digital radios and they put in spot if I it's over that will be one of the final nails in the radio coffin and that's already happening so if you're running an FM radio and radio station right now I think they probably already know it's time to look for retirement plan and a Nice Pl. in Florida a lot of my audience are people that are in phase 2 of their careers there people that are tired of this 9-to-5 grind and they're looking to move in a new direction a big part of that is breaking internetworking either break you to new industry or finding people to work with or even using networking to jump to another company what would you say to people or that phase in life how they can start to use networking with strategy two get to their financial or lifestyle goals yeah look at creating and maintaining relationships is the single biggest Archimedes lever that you can have it's the single biggest lever that you can have leverage you can have etc. there is always the reason we have clichés like it's all about who you know is because we know that relationships dominate the day this is tribalism there's evolutionary psychology in here relationships are always going to be what differentiates you at the top in the middle it will be work experience and talent and skill and things like that but at the very top it's about relationships and at the very bottom it's also about relationships because when you first start your job you're about as skilled as the guy or girl sitting next to you in the cubicle next to you it's about the relationships that create the opportunity to get on the projects you need to move forward the right teams that you need that you know are to be the winning teams to work with the right kind of talent that gets to pick their own team those of the relationships that are gonna set you apart and get you ahead further in the middle people tend to work and focus on skills acquisition I think people should be doing that the entire time I don't think you should let your skill set lag by the wayside but I do think you need to not think oh well in a few years I should start networking more right after I get my website up I should start networking for investors or we need a prototype you need to dig the well before you're thirsty and a lot of people do not do that because they're afraid or they think it's gonna be awkward or they don't have a skill set in place or they feel like they're not able to follow up with her too busy there's a million excuses but the problem is like I said in the beginning of the program if you ignore this skill set for any reason doesn't matter how valid the excuse is in your mind you are just being willfully ignorant of the secret game being played around you and you cannot make up for lost time easily because networking when you need something is not effective if I start telling people that all you know why I really need this opportunity who's going to help me somebody I've known for months or years I've help them a bunch I've created a bunch of opportunity for them and with them we watch football games on the weekend I hate football but but you get the point or we play racquetball or something like that is that person can help me or is again to be the person that I called email out of the blue because now I am ready for them to do me a favor discover value they have to offer people and begin to have a little relationship This is exactly why we say that people need to be introducing folks to other people in their network so if I am a graphic designer and you need graphics I can help you but if I am a graphic designer and you need a dentist so now I can't really help you directly and that's okay because if I'm only helping people that I can help directly we run into a big problem because we run out of scalability as I mentioned before I will have time to help everybody like that and I won't have the ability to help everybody like that either so you need to figure out how to keep people in your orbit and in your network that you can then introduce to others so if I'm a graphic designer needed graphics great I can help you or I can refer you to somebody who can if I'm a graphic designer needed a dentist will now were back to that origin story and I need to be able to refer you to somebody or multiple people who might be able to help and it's not just going to be graphics or dentist I mean I'm looking at helping people who moved to new cities find social circles and friends they should meet people in my own town I look for track of all you're going to Bermuda my friend actually owns a place there why don't I get you in touch with him you have to look for ways to connect other people as much as humanly possible and the more that you do that I'd say try to make a couple of introductions every single week the more that you do that the more your social capital grows so if you build that it is a habit and you actually schedule time on your calendar for an hour a week or something like that to create those introductions that will be super helpful because if you're relying on the fact that you'll remember in the moment or I'll do it when I get a minute well we all know what happens to tasks that are someday maybe it means never and so you need to schedule it out need to look for ways that you can help other people even if they don't ask you the way to do that is to anticipate people's needs we just hired a writer here and I don't hire anybody who called pitches me but this guy wrote in and said hi I noticed a problem on your website here's how it would be fixed I can fix it for you or you can just forward the following instructions to whoever's managing your site I did that it worked that got my attention and then he said hey if I wrote an article that you helped me design for your blog with no links to my own content just as a thank you for doing the show would that be helpful and I said sure send me a sample and he sent me a sample of his work and it was good and then he goes I'm thinking about writing an article about this this this and this I've Artie looked at your website you don't include a lot of info there but it seems very much in line with the the branding and the direction that the show is been going recently and I said sure send me a draft notice in each of these particular interactions all I have to do is basically to say yes I don't have to go through into a bunch work I don't have to design something for him that he might screw up at there's no real time investment so there's very little space where I can fail he sends me a draft I prove it it goes up on the site because this is great I really hope you like it can I do a couple more and I said sure and he didn't ask for any money this is still free he writes a couple more there great and then he says if there's anything I can ever do to help you please let me know I would love to write for you guys here my rates I'm also happy to do stuff for free on and off as a sort of one-off stuff if you need somebody else otherwise have a great time here and I'll look for other stuff and I didn't hire them right away he found another couple little errors on the site he found a couple user experience bugs that we ended up fixing and I said all right this guys detail oriented he can create the product that he knows we need because he's evaluated our business and found that actual need not hey you need this because that's what I'm selling but I looked at your site and this is what I can provide and now he's one of our main writers because I can rely on him he is very responsive he gets the brand he anticipates our needs before I do that's the kind of person that you want working with you I wouldn't have hired him of course if his resume said you can depend on me look at all this other stuff I've done I wouldn't have given to you know what's about that but the fact that he proved it to me was much more powerful than what most people do it is send me their stinking resume along with the rate card and says hey if you want out if you want to have me right for you here's what I cost and you can go and click on these and read my work why would I do that if you want a job with me you gotta figure out how to save me time I don't have to evaluate you it's the other way around and people who get that are worth their weight in gold think that's absolute brilliant shearing from someone who's hiring it's so useful to hear that someone actually went to the process of starting with the cold email and worked his way up to getting the job he wanted using the very techniques are talking about yes and not only that but this was somebody who frankly would have been content enough just to help out the show and just to help out the brand I realize that's not realistic for every single person all the time because what's more effective in the answer is so obvious and yet people will tell themselves excuses all day long about how they don't have time or they don't want to or they don't want to seem schmoozing which is a lack of skill and lack of strategy in this area and it's always always always to their detriment so I would say you need to learn these skills you need to learn verbal and nonverbal communication you need to learn how to follow up with people in on what timescale you need to learn how to scale your network by offering value in helping people connect with one another and facilitate create a platform where you are able to get help other people connect and if you don't put the work in you will find out the hard way a lot of clients that come through AOC of course are young and and we get a lot of that we get a lot of special forces and intelligence guys and stuff like that and salespeople but we also have our fair share of 30 and 40 something and even fiftysomething people that come in and go I've been passed up for a management role three times or two times I need to figure out what's going on here because it's not there python skills of their JavaScript skills are there and project management skills there's something else going on here and they've finally realized all I've been neglecting this skill in favor of hard and technical skills I've been neglecting these soft skills for a decade or two and they have to make up for lost time and there's not that many ways to do that to dig that well before you're thirsty or you will regret it frankly you're trying to get jobs and things like that but you have to be willing to put yourself out there first and invest first and that's the thing a lot of people who email me their stuff or hear read this and here's what I cost if you want more that's only useful if I'm looking for a commodity writers if I'm looking for somebody you can string words together I'm not I'm not looking for just a writer I'm looking for a mind reading writer who and what I mean by that is somebody who does all of the work and figures out exactly what I need and then all I have to do is say yes and sign checks that's the type of person you want in your team and people who understand those of the signals that employers are looking for are so valuable you have to be a writer you can be an artist you can be a virtual assistant things like that I get pictures all the time from people like oh I would love to be your assistant I've been assistance for these other people I don't care I want somebody is going to go hey what's your current email workflow or here's my email workflow here so I can make a typical email workflow that much faster and here are the tools that I used to do it and here are some how can someone begin the process and actually percentages of speed like measurable takeaways not just I need a job and I'm a virtual assistant or an assistant that stuff doesn't work it doesn't work to get jobs of high performers it only works at the low end of the market and I think everyone listening to your show is trying to get at the top end of the market they want to be on the high end of the market they do not want to be trying to scramble to get gigs at the bottom because that's where the resume senders are and those of the people that have to compete on price I will pay what you are worth and if you can show me that you're worth a lot that's what you get I get a lot of messages that just say hey got it work and it's usually one sentence and I like I don't even remember what you do I don't know if your graphic designer programmer and you're exactly right I think the critical component is offering value or demonstrating that it's not a mass email it doesn't feel very personal like this person just copy and paste this message in every single Skype contact because they're out of money this month it doesn't feel like anything beyond that so it's always been a struggle for me to hire people find really good talent that can perform the things I want so I don't want to hire people that I have to heavily manage I don't have time for that I do have time to do my job and checking on someone every two hours it has to be somebody you can manage themselves and I don't know exactly where your audience stands but I want people who are so independent that they can do it on their own in the flag for that the green flag I should say for that is somebody who takes the initiative does the work shows me why I need what they have does the project on spec and proves that I needed that and everybody else is just playing second fiddle and they always will so you really have to figure out how to create those relationships and keep them going and I would say I don't even get one lead like that every year it's more like one every 2 to 3 years do I find somebody who's just awesome and employers of all kinds will snap those people up as fast as him only possible they will just get that as quickly as they possibly can because it is such a rare set of qualities I can count on one hand the number of people I've met in the entire 10 years that I've been running the art of charm that actually fit that but I've worked with it's so rare I want to thank you for spending so much time with us and we been friends for a long time and I appreciate you that me and your schedule yeah there any last thing you'd like to share with my audience I know there can be really excited I very rarely do interviews at 100 shows this is the fourth or fifth interview so we some real special thank you so much management awesome to give this a rants on your program and I hope I've helped some of your audience and probably scared a few as well but them's the breaks so thanks for the opportunity thank you so much the stuffy taco really dovetails with a lot of what we've been sharing as a community the last few months now the best place to find you is Art of that's what they can buy the podcast as well that's right the art of or I mean you're listening to a podcast now just going iTunes or whatever app or using a search for the art of charm and there we are thank you so much for being here Jordan it's an honor as always to talk with you and I can't wait to share this amazing episode with my audience another dilemma and they'll send a lot of feedback about how smart and wonderful and eloquent you are thank you for listening to this week's episode no master make sure you subscribe so you never miss another episode will be back tomorrow with more tips and tactics on how to escape the rat race no now for your chance to win a free copy of Jonathan's bestseller thank you for listening this episode of the servo master podcast join me on my Facebook\serve no master

Jonathan Green

Living the dream on a tropical island, Jonathan is the author of Serve No Master and the host of the Serve No Master Podcast.

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